You are my opposite in viewing the graphics :). The art in spelunky 2 bothers me! That looks like no jungle to me. Spelunky 2 is too bland; it looks like a warehouse. Spelunky 1 feels like a real, spiky environment.
I read the Bossfight Book by Derek; I liked that the publisher wanted him to make arrow traps in the first area do 1 damage, to scale the difficulty, but he wouldn't budge; it had to be punishing!
Spelunky HD influences my view on games.
I hope you manage what you're looking for with your next game.
Well, I completely disagree with you about the graphics ahah. But that’s still interesting to know! I guess in that way it’s nice when something becomes a series, there are different takes on the same thing so there’s more variety for different tastes.
I read that book too, it’s so well told! I heard that Edmund McMillen asked Derek to do exactly the same thing with the arrow trap, ahah.
I haven't played Spelunky. It seems like such a deep rabbit hole. Once, I watched a speedrun of it, I think. It did look wild and exciting/nerve-racking.
Roguelikes is an interesting topic. My main experience with them has been Binding of Isaac, so it's interesting to read how you think it compares (with more quantitative instead of qualitative upgrades, etc.). I've certainly had a fair share of chaos playing Binding of Isaac, but it might not compare to Spelunky.
The peak of my Isaac-playing experience was when I got a bunch of items that created a perfect storm of me essentially being invincible. I could keep generating health restoring pills and plenty of batteries, as long as my battery-driven pill generator was recharged. Then, the game took me to a different world with crazy bosses in each room and I pretty much cleared them out without a sweat. I was "immortal," so I was just chilling with it... until my hubris exposed my Achilles' heel! Before what might have been the final boss room, I forgot to enter the room with a charged battery. This made my whole invincibility cycle fall apart, and I was finally killed ;,( Yeah, that one hurt. It's hard for me to play it now, 'cause I feel like I will never "catch a wave" like that again. Like you said, it creates a fun memory though...
It’s hard to introduce anyone to Spelunky compared to Hades and Isaac. People are so intimidated by that difficulty, but it’s also what makes it so great. What you described happening to you in Isaac would never (or very rarely) happen in Spelunky. I definitely see how a run like that can ruin any future runs, it’s like you had the peak-experience with the game already. It’s way more designed for that and it’s great in its own way. I haven’t had any runs with that much luck, maybe that’s why I haven’t gotten tired of Isaac yet. It does sound ridiculously OP with the health regenerative pills and all ahah
For me seeing what Spelunky does by mostly just being a tricky platformer transformed my view of difficult games. It’s more than satisfying, it’s really mostly a mindset game, you only win by keeping your chin up, being positive and TRYING to have fun even though you know you will die.
> you only win by keeping your chin up, being positive and TRYING to have fun even though you know you will die.
This was super duper huge to me; I'm so happy this game had me spend hundreds of hours accepting this and pushing through; I think I'm a better person as a result :)
It sounds great and it's wonderful when games can give you something meaningful to take away into the real world -- I think it might be one of the highest things a game can achieve, but it, of course, all needs to be built on a good game.
With that said, Spelunky still sounds like a big rabbit hole, and I don't play a lot of games at the moment, so I'm not sure I will jump in it.
I've been playing "Neva" (by the developer behind "Gris") for the last couple of days, and there's a possibility, if it sticks the landing, that it will be close to a perfect game in my very own personal book. It is one of those sort of short, really polished indie single player games -- like a guided meditation or an interactive allegory. It's a smaller commitment I feel fine dedicating myself to :)
I've avoided watching too much about Neva, it seems to be a bit more punchy than Gris, which I think would help me get into it more. Might pick it up some day on a sale.
The game is a great case for "games as art" in my opinion. The mechanics and everything feel like purposeful expressions. At times, it felt like playing a painting to me.
With that said, the game isn't exactly what I thought it would be in terms of its meaning. Cranes (birds) were featured quite a bit as a symbol, and I thought I understood what they meant -- however, it turns out that they have a Japanese meaning as well as a Chinese meaning, so I got that wrong... As a consequence, the game turned out less philosophical and spiritual than I had hoped, but on the other hand, a lot of emotions were still being expressed in it!
I like the game a lot, personally, and imagine I will play it again some day.
I like your analysis of the chaos of Spelunky vs. Hades. Yes, they are different games, but their roguelike framework is similar.
I think it's similar to Smash bros vs. other fighting games, and Mario Kart vs. other racing games. There is an element of randomness to the items and levels that makes skill less important. In Smash bros, you die by "falling" which can happen in a thousand different ways, whereas most other fighting games are simply about health bars.
While this may bother some players who prefer to focus on skill, I think it also makes it much more approachable to a wider audience.
Hmm yeah, it definitely does something for approachability when you go more towards the health-bar route. It makes stuff so clear, there's usually no confusion as to what made you die and you definitely see it coming gradually. Otherwise it might just seem more like it comes out of nowhere..?
You are my opposite in viewing the graphics :). The art in spelunky 2 bothers me! That looks like no jungle to me. Spelunky 2 is too bland; it looks like a warehouse. Spelunky 1 feels like a real, spiky environment.
I read the Bossfight Book by Derek; I liked that the publisher wanted him to make arrow traps in the first area do 1 damage, to scale the difficulty, but he wouldn't budge; it had to be punishing!
Spelunky HD influences my view on games.
I hope you manage what you're looking for with your next game.
Well, I completely disagree with you about the graphics ahah. But that’s still interesting to know! I guess in that way it’s nice when something becomes a series, there are different takes on the same thing so there’s more variety for different tastes.
I read that book too, it’s so well told! I heard that Edmund McMillen asked Derek to do exactly the same thing with the arrow trap, ahah.
Thank you for the encouragement buddy!
I haven't played Spelunky. It seems like such a deep rabbit hole. Once, I watched a speedrun of it, I think. It did look wild and exciting/nerve-racking.
Roguelikes is an interesting topic. My main experience with them has been Binding of Isaac, so it's interesting to read how you think it compares (with more quantitative instead of qualitative upgrades, etc.). I've certainly had a fair share of chaos playing Binding of Isaac, but it might not compare to Spelunky.
The peak of my Isaac-playing experience was when I got a bunch of items that created a perfect storm of me essentially being invincible. I could keep generating health restoring pills and plenty of batteries, as long as my battery-driven pill generator was recharged. Then, the game took me to a different world with crazy bosses in each room and I pretty much cleared them out without a sweat. I was "immortal," so I was just chilling with it... until my hubris exposed my Achilles' heel! Before what might have been the final boss room, I forgot to enter the room with a charged battery. This made my whole invincibility cycle fall apart, and I was finally killed ;,( Yeah, that one hurt. It's hard for me to play it now, 'cause I feel like I will never "catch a wave" like that again. Like you said, it creates a fun memory though...
It’s hard to introduce anyone to Spelunky compared to Hades and Isaac. People are so intimidated by that difficulty, but it’s also what makes it so great. What you described happening to you in Isaac would never (or very rarely) happen in Spelunky. I definitely see how a run like that can ruin any future runs, it’s like you had the peak-experience with the game already. It’s way more designed for that and it’s great in its own way. I haven’t had any runs with that much luck, maybe that’s why I haven’t gotten tired of Isaac yet. It does sound ridiculously OP with the health regenerative pills and all ahah
For me seeing what Spelunky does by mostly just being a tricky platformer transformed my view of difficult games. It’s more than satisfying, it’s really mostly a mindset game, you only win by keeping your chin up, being positive and TRYING to have fun even though you know you will die.
> you only win by keeping your chin up, being positive and TRYING to have fun even though you know you will die.
This was super duper huge to me; I'm so happy this game had me spend hundreds of hours accepting this and pushing through; I think I'm a better person as a result :)
Ahh cool! I feel silly sometimes for thinking so highly of Spelunky, it's comforting to know you feel the same!
It sounds great and it's wonderful when games can give you something meaningful to take away into the real world -- I think it might be one of the highest things a game can achieve, but it, of course, all needs to be built on a good game.
With that said, Spelunky still sounds like a big rabbit hole, and I don't play a lot of games at the moment, so I'm not sure I will jump in it.
I've been playing "Neva" (by the developer behind "Gris") for the last couple of days, and there's a possibility, if it sticks the landing, that it will be close to a perfect game in my very own personal book. It is one of those sort of short, really polished indie single player games -- like a guided meditation or an interactive allegory. It's a smaller commitment I feel fine dedicating myself to :)
It's for sure a bit of a rabbit hole!
I've avoided watching too much about Neva, it seems to be a bit more punchy than Gris, which I think would help me get into it more. Might pick it up some day on a sale.
Did you finish it yet?
I did finish it and find all of the collectibles.
The game is a great case for "games as art" in my opinion. The mechanics and everything feel like purposeful expressions. At times, it felt like playing a painting to me.
With that said, the game isn't exactly what I thought it would be in terms of its meaning. Cranes (birds) were featured quite a bit as a symbol, and I thought I understood what they meant -- however, it turns out that they have a Japanese meaning as well as a Chinese meaning, so I got that wrong... As a consequence, the game turned out less philosophical and spiritual than I had hoped, but on the other hand, a lot of emotions were still being expressed in it!
I like the game a lot, personally, and imagine I will play it again some day.
I like your analysis of the chaos of Spelunky vs. Hades. Yes, they are different games, but their roguelike framework is similar.
I think it's similar to Smash bros vs. other fighting games, and Mario Kart vs. other racing games. There is an element of randomness to the items and levels that makes skill less important. In Smash bros, you die by "falling" which can happen in a thousand different ways, whereas most other fighting games are simply about health bars.
While this may bother some players who prefer to focus on skill, I think it also makes it much more approachable to a wider audience.
Hmm yeah, it definitely does something for approachability when you go more towards the health-bar route. It makes stuff so clear, there's usually no confusion as to what made you die and you definitely see it coming gradually. Otherwise it might just seem more like it comes out of nowhere..?
Glad you liked my analysis! :- )